.. here are parts of the dialogue from the previous thread to bring everybody up to speed ...you can connect with the authors by searching with the authors name in linkedIn:

George Kasey • I still do not get this...when is someone going to come up with the money so I can make my film? I can write the script later and be able to pay everyone here for their input. Where is the money?

George Kasey • I'm saying that "THEY" take our stuff and make it into whatever that fits their mercenary agenda and people line up like Dorothy on the yellow brick road to OZ, to give them more of it..."wishing on a star" and hoping to win the lottery, with more crap per second flooding all the channels, than you can shake a stick and then people telling you they know how to make the crap just so ...dot the i's and make it just so, that "THEY" will like it. It's so much B.S.
...where is the money for my film? I've been writing for 45 yrs., now I've got repeated stress injury to show for it, while "THEY" have made 100's of Millions exploiting our concepts...I retire broke and look stupid for even writing more, for what? ... for "THEM" ...so where is the money up front??? In any other business, you get your money for your labour. Competitiveness is for horses not for artists. Even if I have a concept that will "save the planet", but if "THEY" cannot make it "nice and so everyone can like it" so that "THEY" can line their pockets with our gold, then it will never get made..."THEY" are the media monopoly, the 1% ...why are people in such a hurry to give up their creative energy, to feed these vampires anyway ...where is the money???

Monique Mata • George, are you saying "they" owe you money to make your film?

Why am I even replying to this? With all due respect, George, but you sound a little nutters.

George Kasey • ...with all due respect ...which part of " In any other business, you get your money for your labour." sounds nutters to you?

George Kasey • Monique ...in educated and polite society, we do not critique artists with attempts at ad hominem, we comment on the principle and not the personality...if it "sounds nutters", perhaps that is the intent of the artist ...most "first drafts" of any consequence "sound nutters" to begin with, but are usually better than the homogenized media junk out there in the main stream ...there are "Media Monopoly" reasons for this (See Ben Bagdikian's book by the same title)

...check out the use of the terms "THEY" and "THEM" in the taxi driver dialogue in "Conspiracy Theory"..that might give you a clue.

We use quotation marks, to denote that we are not writing in the first person. Generally if we do not understand someone, it does not imply that they are "nutters", it only means that we do not understand them.

You are welcome to register at our Virtual Free University, if you are willing to pay the writer of "THIS" for more insight into the profession of writing and why it is that 89% of all copyrights and patents belong to the military, industrial, disease establishment ...the so called "1%"and not the authors and why truly radical writers works are constantly "marginalized ( "sounds nutters") , quarantined, homogenized and then cloned" so that all you get on the "boob tube" is "junk" directed at an audience of zombies... if "THEY" want "Propaganda" (See Jaques Ellul's book by the same title) let "THEM" pay for it ...or "Shut the F**K up" "where is the money?" in any case it was our error to post in this section..."where is the money?"

Hank Isaac • Seems like two not-really-parallel discussions going on here. Group honcho, feel free to move this thread elsewhere. This is a bit like wading into a pool of nitric acid, but here goes...

If only great work got funded, there'd be only great work in theatres or on TV. So we know "greatness" is not the key to getting cash.

I'm nowhere near a world-class art historian, but I suspect most recognized artists sacrificed much creativity in deference to the wishes of their patrons. Think about it. You want your house painted. You pick the color. The painting contractor paints it. If the contractor says, "That's a crappy color. I'm going to paint it the way I think it should be painted." And you say... here it comes... "It's MY money, so paint it the way I want."

Problem: Most of the people with the cash aren't creative and most of the creative people don't have the cash. It's mayonnaise, folks.

IMHO, the key to success in any art-related endeavor is to spend time finding folks who (1) like your stuff, and (2) have some cash to make it happen. Advertising for funding on LinkedIn (sorry, LI) probably isn't the key. There are enough people out there with enough resources to get things done. It's just a matter of hunting smart.

Regarding what's out there now, the process is very primordial. An amoeba gets food from one place, it goes back again and again. It gets shocked, it doesn't go back. Pirates of the Caribbean "4". Around one billion dollars in sales worldwide. The epitome of filmmaking. Not.

Things not going well? Let's remake some successful films and then we can be successful again. Forget that times, people, culture, and media have all changed. People will show up because of the title.

This is indeed a bizarre gladiator sport.

George Kasey • Hank: ...i agree with your statement, "we know "greatness" is not the key to getting cash."... precisely my point. "You can bring a whore to culture, but you cannot force her to think" and this mainstream media culture is one big brothel for sure...if anything the pirates need to be eaten by us amoeba ...the writers that "THEY" (the whores) clone and as far as spending your money to feed the machine, that is "nutters" for sure.

I like the neo luddite idea of "taxation of the technology to compensate those displaced by it", at the very least guaranteed liveable income for all, but especially for the culture workers, who are the real bread makers in the society

...honest artists have been bumped by big media technology since the 1920's and that is why we have a 1% out there dominating the scene. Eat the bitch!!!

Sanjay Madhavan • Friends,
You all are senior to me and I have a lot to learn. But I would like to make my point here.
An aspiring writer had a query and she posted it For getting feedback.
Pls do not use this thread to vent out frustrations.
As seniors, you guys need to inspire us.
And I don't see that happening,

George Kasey • Sanjay:...

which begs the question "Is there free speech in America?"

Second, expressing frustration is not just venting, but it is also feedback and if you read our comments carefully, they are about ways to avoid getting frustrated in the future. By relying in myths like "Luck" artists opens themselves up to abuse and exploitation.

If you see things that way they really are, without bias, you have a better chance of surviving as a creative spirit in the 21st CE.

Third, we are never "seniors" in the arts ...every one is just one day old in the creative process.

You are always welcome to ask people that have been around for a while, what their opinions are, but it is suggested that you connect with your own creative self for the answers that you need.

Generally, there are no rules in the business, except one "freedom of the press, is for those that have a press," take it from there. Rule number two might be, "never work on spec" unless you are writing for yourself then it is OK. If someone wants you to paint their wall, they can pay you for it and if they don't like the way you paint, then they can find someone else who will do it for "THEM" the way "THEY" want it done. Stay FREE.

All the best to all of you and hope to see you on the new discussion, if it ever gets posted.

It is greatly appreciated that you want to "get inspired" and we also want to "get our money" from people that want to "get inspire" ...maybe we can do business ... thank you for your feedback.

Ed Love • George, you can create the new discussion yourself. That's probably the best solution. It's an interesting thread, and DESERVES its own discussion.

Separate topics, separate discussions. Let's keep this easy to follow :)

George Kasey • ED :Thank you for the vote of confidence. I agree. I have attempted to post this discussion as separate myself several times and it does not show and that was my intent to begin with...how it got into this thread I do not know? I have apologised to everyone here already ...the new discussion seems to be being waiting approval ...perhaps the manager of this will be in and set it up tomorrow? I will attempt to re-post again now...

George Kasey • Ed: ...i have created a new group called "Thinkers Who Write" for this discussion to continue...let us see what happens now...

Darlene Hartman • Sanjay, you make a trenchant point when you state that we older writers should inspire you younger ones. But consider: you're seeing writers when they are frustrated, sad, worried, angry; all these things are also part of being a writer, and learning how to handle the inevitable stresses that will arise, as in any industry.

For instance, I had four hour-long television plays frankly appropriated from me and handed off to other writers, because I stupidly forgot to register them with WGAw; and my agent also neglected to remind me/register them himself and then bill me/mention it in passing. Therefore, I found myself brokenheartedly watching my wonderful stories and sharp dialogue unfold on the television--under someone else's name. And the payment went into their bank account, not mine. This when I had just been (mistakenly, thank God!) diagnosed with leukemia and had six children under eleven years old at the time.

These things happen. They're wrong, they're tough to bear, they shouldn't happen but they happen, never the less. Now I would know to contact WGAw and ask for arbitration; but then I was so new and much more stupid than any of you possibly could ever be, and so I lost out. It's how we learn, I guess.

It's hard to see trash on the screen when the script you just finished could blow that garbage out of the water. But "THEY" didn't buy it. That's the breaks.

What writers need to do--especially with all the new software, cameras, cool lights, and other helpful resources that were unheard-of 'Way Back When--is to club together/talk to your local Drama coach to get your screenplay read gratis/visit your local TV station or PBS affiliate--these guys know how to use a camera well, an might be interested in helping you shoot a film/find SOME WAY to make your own movie.

George Lucas told a young director, when asked how he could go about making his own movie, "Somehow." Somehow.

He was right. If you don't like what they're doing, make your own film--somehow!Get someone to fund you--or several someones. Offer to use the 'angel's' car dealership in the film; offer to have the name of the restaurant feature prominently in the BG of several shots--or even have some action there; offer the rancher a credit if he'll let you use/show you how to use his cattle/horses/dog. Contact a local dog school, where they train dogs. See if someone wants to be in a movie. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Try them all.

I once got two guys--one a neighbor who owned his own plane, and the other an old stunt man who collected antique airplanes--to fly in a short film I did. The old man flew his Sopwith Camel in the film, and the other guy was the 'follow plane' and from there we shot all the footage. And they did it for the fun of it, didn't cost me a dime.

The older fellow, Lance Leonard, even drove from Southern California to Arizona with his wife, stayed overnight, flew his Camel back to the shooting area and flew for a few hours. The auto gas, accommodations, meals, airline fuel and wear-n-tear cost me EXACTLY NOTHING but a credit for each of them when we rolled end credits!

So, you see, there are lots of ways to get a film done. Don't waste time and emotion yelling at "THEM." Go make your own film. Beat them at their own game.

Best of luck! Can't wait to see what y'all come up with!

Sandra Bolton • Life experiences can make for a bitter personality. Life experiences and knowledge enhances growth. Life experiences, knowledge and growth feed talent. Talent is a gift to be developed through life experiences with a sense of fulfillment for the writer, artist, creator. Money? Well it is what it is...keep on doing what YOU love.

George Kasey ...many of the most important thinkers did not write because they knew better or had their writngs suppresed, here are a few names you may recognize:

Socrates, Helvetius, Condorcette, Jesus of Nazareth, Sakyamuni Buddha, Margret Sanger, Emma Goldman, the thinkers and writers of the reformation and many more that are even now invisible, drowned in sea of media junk

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